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	<title>Comments on: Are You Ready for Higher Taxes?</title>
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	<description>Home of the Gwinnett Blogosphere</description>
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		<title>By: Bannister Fiddles While Gwinnett Burns &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Bannister Fiddles While Gwinnett Burns &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-64</guid>
		<description>[...] Finally, the Bannister administration must rethink its spending. I am confident that Gwinnett taxpayers facing a three-mill tax increase this year would rather Bannister spend their tax dollars on law enforcement than on a light rail study, GPS in county vehicles, a &#8220;Go Green Initiative&#8221; and a tennis center. [Source] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Finally, the Bannister administration must rethink its spending. I am confident that Gwinnett taxpayers facing a three-mill tax increase this year would rather Bannister spend their tax dollars on law enforcement than on a light rail study, GPS in county vehicles, a &#8220;Go Green Initiative&#8221; and a tennis center. [Source] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Monday Morning Catch-Up: 3/23 &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Monday Morning Catch-Up: 3/23 &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 03:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-61</guid>
		<description>[...] budget included token reductions in numerous handouts to community non-profits, but almost $19 million in additional spending. The additional &#8220;pork&#8221; included $1.06 million for the &#8220;Go Green [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] budget included token reductions in numerous handouts to community non-profits, but almost $19 million in additional spending. The additional &#8220;pork&#8221; included $1.06 million for the &#8220;Go Green [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Taxing Problem &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>A Taxing Problem &#124; TalkGwinnett.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-53</guid>
		<description>[...] Are You Ready for Higher Taxes? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Are You Ready for Higher Taxes? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gwinnett Buzz &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Here comes a property tax increase</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwinnett Buzz &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Here comes a property tax increase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-50</guid>
		<description>[...] and that is going to hit you right in your wallet.  Bob Griggs at TalkGwinnett.com has posted an in-depth budget analysis and concludes that an increase of 2.06 mills will be necessary.  This translates into $144 more in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and that is going to hit you right in your wallet.  Bob Griggs at TalkGwinnett.com has posted an in-depth budget analysis and concludes that an increase of 2.06 mills will be necessary.  This translates into $144 more in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Debi P</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Debi P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Very astute David! Obviously you are not employed by the County or you would have your &quot;County blinders&quot; on.  It is an old trick of the trade for politicians to hide behind the math as if we can&#039;t add 2 and 2 and get 4!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very astute David! Obviously you are not employed by the County or you would have your &#8220;County blinders&#8221; on.  It is an old trick of the trade for politicians to hide behind the math as if we can&#8217;t add 2 and 2 and get 4!</p>
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		<title>By: Debi P</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Debi P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Higher property taxes? What a surprise! I don&#039;t know about Bannister&#039;s supporters but the rest of us who did not vote for him knew this day would come.  
 
I think they should go back to the drawing board and start again this time try to manage the money as if it were their own! Obviously had this budget been leaked to the press Chairman Bannister would have been run out of office instead of riding in on his Trojan horse. 
 
When I make my budget if it doesn&#039;t balance (which the County&#039;s hasn&#039;t for the entire time Bannister has been in office) I cut things, things I can&#039;t afford, think the Board of Commissioners  ever heard of this? I know it is a new concept for them so I&#039;ll be 
patient while they get informed.  I know there are more items in the 2009 budget that can be streamlined or omitted entirely in order to keep property taxes down, maybe they could look at some of the fat in the budget and trim it a bit, huh? I do it, I manage my money and I am very *frugal with my funds! For those on the Commission Board and our deep pocketed, big headed Chairman who have probably never heard of this word I am happy to provide them with it&#039;s meaning and maybe they could add it to their own vocabulary; 
 
*fru-gal    1. not wasteful; not spending freely or unnecessarily; saving; economical 2. not costly or luxurious; inexpensive. b. sparingly provided. 
 
What a concept, huh? Gotta love it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higher property taxes? What a surprise! I don&#8217;t know about Bannister&#8217;s supporters but the rest of us who did not vote for him knew this day would come.  </p>
<p>I think they should go back to the drawing board and start again this time try to manage the money as if it were their own! Obviously had this budget been leaked to the press Chairman Bannister would have been run out of office instead of riding in on his Trojan horse. </p>
<p>When I make my budget if it doesn&#8217;t balance (which the County&#8217;s hasn&#8217;t for the entire time Bannister has been in office) I cut things, things I can&#8217;t afford, think the Board of Commissioners  ever heard of this? I know it is a new concept for them so I&#8217;ll be<br />
patient while they get informed.  I know there are more items in the 2009 budget that can be streamlined or omitted entirely in order to keep property taxes down, maybe they could look at some of the fat in the budget and trim it a bit, huh? I do it, I manage my money and I am very *frugal with my funds! For those on the Commission Board and our deep pocketed, big headed Chairman who have probably never heard of this word I am happy to provide them with it&#8217;s meaning and maybe they could add it to their own vocabulary; </p>
<p>*fru-gal    1. not wasteful; not spending freely or unnecessarily; saving; economical 2. not costly or luxurious; inexpensive. b. sparingly provided. </p>
<p>What a concept, huh? Gotta love it!</p>
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		<title>By: DS</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>DS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-42</guid>
		<description>So after the $5.20 additional increase on everyones water bill the net impact from homeowners should be $4.5 million) based on 50% of homes of the 180k that the BOC used for their trash figures. This gives all others the assumption thay are on wells and septic.

So I wonder how much revenue will come in from businesses?

So lets assume that the milleage rate will increase everyones taxes by $100 per year,using the same 180k houses that will generate another $18 million. How quuickly the shortfall gap will close before even figuring in comercial assesments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So after the $5.20 additional increase on everyones water bill the net impact from homeowners should be $4.5 million) based on 50% of homes of the 180k that the BOC used for their trash figures. This gives all others the assumption thay are on wells and septic.</p>
<p>So I wonder how much revenue will come in from businesses?</p>
<p>So lets assume that the milleage rate will increase everyones taxes by $100 per year,using the same 180k houses that will generate another $18 million. How quuickly the shortfall gap will close before even figuring in comercial assesments.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hancock</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-41</guid>
		<description>I have a question -

I just pulled down the 2008 budget and noticed that the Operating budget was $855.8 Million and the Capital budget was $676.3 Million for a grand total of around $1.5 Billion.  If you look at their little budget presentation for 2009 you see a total budget of $1.67 Billion made up of an operating budget of $901.9 Million and $770 Million in Capital projects.  Where did they make the cuts?  It seems to me that they are proposing an INCREASE in spending over last year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question -</p>
<p>I just pulled down the 2008 budget and noticed that the Operating budget was $855.8 Million and the Capital budget was $676.3 Million for a grand total of around $1.5 Billion.  If you look at their little budget presentation for 2009 you see a total budget of $1.67 Billion made up of an operating budget of $901.9 Million and $770 Million in Capital projects.  Where did they make the cuts?  It seems to me that they are proposing an INCREASE in spending over last year!</p>
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		<title>By: BarkingGhost</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>BarkingGhost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-39</guid>
		<description>I am amazed that the county has come to this, but then I am not. First, the county has long planned their budget based on expected growth in property tax revenues. The enticement is to attract new residents with the school system. Yet, the combination of $11,650 per pupil per year school cost (based on content in the 2009 K12 county budget) and the Do No Ask policy had led to a mismanagement of county finances that can easily be estimated into the $80-100 Million range.

Compare the school system demographics between the Atlanta and Gwinnett school systems between 1990 and 2005. The demographic component of interest (let&#039;s call it DCI) shows a start difference between Atlanta&#039;s Ask policy and Gwinnett&#039;s Do Not Ask policy.

The DCI remained almost unchanged for Atlanta&#039;s school system for the DCI, but had a +20 fold increase in Gwinnett&#039;s school system. If one conservatively estimates the representation by the illegal population within the DCI as being only one-in-five (20%) and apply this against the 2009 budget student population (DCI is 30,050 students in Gwinnett&#039;s K12) the amount is approximately $70 Million.

And let&#039;s not forget about the costs of burden the illegal representation of DCI is on other county systems such as the Sheriff&#039;s department, the medical system, etc., and thence look at who is employing their household heads via a tax evasive operations.

Gwinnett county needs to do the right thing and not financially support the illegal portion of DCI. Look to your neighbors, friends, and businesses conducting their business in questionable manners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am amazed that the county has come to this, but then I am not. First, the county has long planned their budget based on expected growth in property tax revenues. The enticement is to attract new residents with the school system. Yet, the combination of $11,650 per pupil per year school cost (based on content in the 2009 K12 county budget) and the Do No Ask policy had led to a mismanagement of county finances that can easily be estimated into the $80-100 Million range.</p>
<p>Compare the school system demographics between the Atlanta and Gwinnett school systems between 1990 and 2005. The demographic component of interest (let&#8217;s call it DCI) shows a start difference between Atlanta&#8217;s Ask policy and Gwinnett&#8217;s Do Not Ask policy.</p>
<p>The DCI remained almost unchanged for Atlanta&#8217;s school system for the DCI, but had a +20 fold increase in Gwinnett&#8217;s school system. If one conservatively estimates the representation by the illegal population within the DCI as being only one-in-five (20%) and apply this against the 2009 budget student population (DCI is 30,050 students in Gwinnett&#8217;s K12) the amount is approximately $70 Million.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s not forget about the costs of burden the illegal representation of DCI is on other county systems such as the Sheriff&#8217;s department, the medical system, etc., and thence look at who is employing their household heads via a tax evasive operations.</p>
<p>Gwinnett county needs to do the right thing and not financially support the illegal portion of DCI. Look to your neighbors, friends, and businesses conducting their business in questionable manners.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Griggs</title>
		<link>http://www.talkgwinnett.com/2009/are-you-ready-for-higher-taxes/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Griggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 08:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkgwinnett.com/?p=489#comment-38</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know for sure, but I have always understood that Gwinnett assessed on a three-year rotation. You are right; there will be property owners for whom HB-233 provides a temporary benefit while others receive no benefit. I assume that, after the assessment cap expires that property will again be valued at Fair Market Value.

I had actually forgotten about the Value Offset Exemption, which is a floating exemption that increases by the same dollar amount that your assessed value increases. The VOE is only beneficial to homestead, while HB-233 freezes the assessments of non-homestead as well as non-residential.

Also, the VOE only applies to county taxes while HB-233 will cap assessments for not only county taxes but city and school taxes as well.

Yes, the Commission screwed up by rolling back the rate even when it produced a deficit. You may recall that I did an analysis of the millage rates of all Gwinnett jurisdictions in 2005. While I found that most cities OVERtaxed via an arbitrarily-inflated millage rate, the county and the school board actually UNDER-taxed. I have looked at only one year since 2005, but the county undertaxed in that year, also.

It is my opinion that it is just as irresponsible for the county to undertax (create debt) as it would be for it to overtax.

Finally, you might be interested in the history of HB-233. When Rep. Edward Lindsey first submitted it, it had nothing to do with an assessment cap. It modified a definition related to conservation use property. Lindsey also submitted HR-1, which was a constitutional amendment to impose a permanent, three-percent assessment cap.

The Democrats resisted HR-1. Because the proposed constitutional amendment required a &quot;super-majority&quot; to pass, the Republicans were unable to push it through.

So Lindsey, in committee, completely changed the subject-- he rewrote HB-233 to impose a temporary three-, then ZERO-percent assessment cap. The entire purpose was to threaten Democrats and &quot;encourage&quot; them to support HR-1. If the Dems continued to oppose HR-1, the Republicans would proceed with the NEW HB-233 which, as a regular bill could pass with a simple majority.

The Dems held firm. As soon as HR-1 failed to receive a super-majority on its second try, Lindsey and House leadership presented HB-233, which passed.

Majority Leader Chip Rogers presented the bill in the Senate and it passed without question after it was amended in committee so that it didn&#039;t apply to a couple of counties that had just, or were about to complete a county-wide revaluation.

HB-233, if it is enacted, will hopefully be challenged. It won&#039;t withstand a challenge on constitutionality because it creates a privileged class of taxpayer, and that can only be done by constitutional amendment.

The Republicans&#039; conduct during the progress of this bill was despicable.... especially since an assessment cap can easily be shown to be ineffective and harmful.

For 100% EFFECTIVE property tax reform, visit www.millagerate.com. To read more about the dangers of assessment caps, visit www.millagerate.com/blog/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know for sure, but I have always understood that Gwinnett assessed on a three-year rotation. You are right; there will be property owners for whom HB-233 provides a temporary benefit while others receive no benefit. I assume that, after the assessment cap expires that property will again be valued at Fair Market Value.</p>
<p>I had actually forgotten about the Value Offset Exemption, which is a floating exemption that increases by the same dollar amount that your assessed value increases. The VOE is only beneficial to homestead, while HB-233 freezes the assessments of non-homestead as well as non-residential.</p>
<p>Also, the VOE only applies to county taxes while HB-233 will cap assessments for not only county taxes but city and school taxes as well.</p>
<p>Yes, the Commission screwed up by rolling back the rate even when it produced a deficit. You may recall that I did an analysis of the millage rates of all Gwinnett jurisdictions in 2005. While I found that most cities OVERtaxed via an arbitrarily-inflated millage rate, the county and the school board actually UNDER-taxed. I have looked at only one year since 2005, but the county undertaxed in that year, also.</p>
<p>It is my opinion that it is just as irresponsible for the county to undertax (create debt) as it would be for it to overtax.</p>
<p>Finally, you might be interested in the history of HB-233. When Rep. Edward Lindsey first submitted it, it had nothing to do with an assessment cap. It modified a definition related to conservation use property. Lindsey also submitted HR-1, which was a constitutional amendment to impose a permanent, three-percent assessment cap.</p>
<p>The Democrats resisted HR-1. Because the proposed constitutional amendment required a &#8220;super-majority&#8221; to pass, the Republicans were unable to push it through.</p>
<p>So Lindsey, in committee, completely changed the subject&#8211; he rewrote HB-233 to impose a temporary three-, then ZERO-percent assessment cap. The entire purpose was to threaten Democrats and &#8220;encourage&#8221; them to support HR-1. If the Dems continued to oppose HR-1, the Republicans would proceed with the NEW HB-233 which, as a regular bill could pass with a simple majority.</p>
<p>The Dems held firm. As soon as HR-1 failed to receive a super-majority on its second try, Lindsey and House leadership presented HB-233, which passed.</p>
<p>Majority Leader Chip Rogers presented the bill in the Senate and it passed without question after it was amended in committee so that it didn&#8217;t apply to a couple of counties that had just, or were about to complete a county-wide revaluation.</p>
<p>HB-233, if it is enacted, will hopefully be challenged. It won&#8217;t withstand a challenge on constitutionality because it creates a privileged class of taxpayer, and that can only be done by constitutional amendment.</p>
<p>The Republicans&#8217; conduct during the progress of this bill was despicable&#8230;. especially since an assessment cap can easily be shown to be ineffective and harmful.</p>
<p>For 100% EFFECTIVE property tax reform, visit <a href="http://www.millagerate.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.millagerate.com</a>. To read more about the dangers of assessment caps, visit <a href="http://www.millagerate.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://www.millagerate.com/blog/</a></p>
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